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    Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

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    larryjf

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    Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by larryjf on Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:42 pm

    The Sadducees had a very different Bible from the Pharisees…they only believed that the first 5 books of Moses were God’s word. Yet you never see Jesus trying to convince them otherwise.

    When Jesus corrected their mistaken view on the resurrection He did not do so with what would be clear texts from Scripture that they did not believe to be God’s word. Instead, He quoted from the books that they held to be Scripture (Mat 22:31-32)

    It's also interesting to see that Jesus and the Apostles quote from the Greek Septuagint as the very words of God. They use the common version of the day...without referencing "the Hebrew really says..."

    What does this mean for us today?
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    Adam
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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by Adam on Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:51 pm

    I'm going to have to ponder this a while Larry. Suspect

    Pilgrim

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by Pilgrim on Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:43 pm

    larryjf wrote:The Sadducees had a very different Bible from the Pharisees…they only believed that the first 5 books of Moses were God’s word. Yet you never see Jesus trying to convince them otherwise.

    When Jesus corrected their mistaken view on the resurrection He did not do so with what would be clear texts from Scripture that they did not believe to be God’s word. Instead, He quoted from the books that they held to be Scripture (Mat 22:31-32)

    It's also interesting to see that Jesus and the Apostles quote from the Greek Septuagint as the very words of God. They use the common version of the day...without referencing "the Hebrew really says..."

    What does this mean for us today?

    I think it means what a former pastor of mine, who was not KJVO meant. He once said something like "The devil will give the impetus for a new translation and then will sponsor the debates about it once it is published!" All the while people are talking about the Bible instead of actually reading it. I know that I have spent way much time in the past on the issue, reading about which text families are best, etc. when I would have been better served to have immersed myself in my NASB, NKJV or KJV.
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    larryjf

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by larryjf on Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:58 pm

    Pilgrim wrote:
    I think it means what a former pastor of mine, who was not KJVO meant. He once said something like "The devil will give the impetus for a new translation and then will sponsor the debates about it once it is published!" All the while people are talking about the Bible instead of actually reading it. I know that I have spent way much time in the past on the issue, reading about which text families are best, etc. when I would have been better served to have immersed myself in my NASB, NKJV or KJV.
    Your former pastor is very wise, indeed.

    Jonathan Hunt

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by Jonathan Hunt on Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:55 pm

    Very interesting. I couldn't agree more.
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    KennyJS

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by KennyJS on Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:11 pm

    I personally only read and study from the King James Version for many reasons, most of which are based on personal preference.

    First and foremost, it makes it easy for my to synchronize my studying. Many of the .PDF "Through the Bible" studies I go through, the software I use, the audio I have, the DVD Bible I have, and so on are all in King James. King James is also the first (and only) Bible I've read from beginning to end.

    Secondly, I like the poetic feel; specially in Psalms.

    Lastly, after comparing versus in my KJV / NIV parallel Bible, I did notice some major changes in the NIV. However, these major changes wouldn't really cause any huge doctrinal error. I just personally got more from the KJV.

    What does worry me is some of these newer translations, which I would never recommend. From what I understand there's even a Gay Study Bible now?
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    Pilgrim's Progeny

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by Pilgrim's Progeny on Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:10 pm

    I have long been troubled by the versions debate. I have never had any fruitful, as far as i could tell, discussions regarding this debate. While I find that the puritan reformation stands upon the KJV I do not necessarily find the KJV and it's underlying texts to be absolutely essential to modern reformation, which ,itself, in time, will be history, as well as the puritans.
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    larryjf

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by larryjf on Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:16 pm

    Pilgrim's Progeny wrote:I have long been troubled by the versions debate. I have never had any fruitful, as far as i could tell, discussions regarding this debate. While I find that the puritan reformation stands upon the KJV I do not necessarily find the KJV and it's underlying texts to be absolutely essential to modern reformation, which ,itself, in time, will be history, as well as the puritans.
    That's a very interesting point. Especially if modern reformed church at large crafts a modern confession...they will most likely use a modern version.
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    KennyJS

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by KennyJS on Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:49 pm

    Most of the KJV only crowd is mainly concerned with the influence of the newer transcripts discovered in Alexandria, and influenced by Wescott and Hort who were not exactly theologically correct in their ways of thinking. Kent "Dr. Dino" Hovind has a pretty good video on YouTube where he goes through the history of the different versions and he has come to the conclusion that he would depend mostly on the KJV.

    Other than that, most of the KJV only debates I've heard are kind of weak. I went to a KJV only Church and they stated that because Isaiah says "Morning star" instead of Lucifer, some may get the idea that Jesus Christ fell from Heaven. I've yet to hear anyone come to that conclusion. Also, because 7 represents completion, they claim that the KJV is the seventh stage of English translation. If that's the case, I'll read the Catholic Bible because it has 77 books which means it's complete.

    In a nutshell, I'm not sure a version is heretical until it compromises essential doctrines like salvation through Christ alone and whatnot.
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    larryjf

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by larryjf on Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:28 am

    The best arguments that i've heard for the KJV are from Theodore Letis...the Ecclesiastical Text.

    The thing is, the question is really about the manuscripts...not the translation.

    I would think that a good argument for the KJV as a translation, from a reformed perspective, would be that all of the translators were confessional.

    I don't think there's been a confessional translation since then.
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    elnwood

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by elnwood on Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:01 am

    The King James English is almost 500 years old, and the English is archaic.

    It might "flow" well poetically, but for the newer generations that have grown up with the NIV their whole life, and for the people that did not grow up in church, the language does everything but flow.

    The Bible needs to be in language that people speak and understand. The New Testament was in everyday Greek, and was not intended to sound "poetic." The power in the Scripture is in its meaning, and the meaning ought to be clearly understood. If that is obscured by archaic language, then the Word of God is hindered.
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    GMcClain20

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by GMcClain20 on Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:28 am

    larryjf wrote:The Sadducees had a very different Bible from the Pharisees…they only believed that the first 5 books of Moses were God’s word. Yet you never see Jesus trying to convince them otherwise.

    When Jesus corrected their mistaken view on the resurrection He did not do so with what would be clear texts from Scripture that they did not believe to be God’s word. Instead, He quoted from the books that they held to be Scripture (Mat 22:31-32)

    It's also interesting to see that Jesus and the Apostles quote from the Greek Septuagint as the very words of God. They use the common version of the day...without referencing "the Hebrew really says..."

    What does this mean for us today?

    Did you notice what you said Larry? Jesus didn't waste his time proving the validity of the Kethuvim and Nevi'im. He simply focused on what ground He and the Sadducees shared. Were He to use later texts don't you think He'd have wasted valuable time that he could have spent simply using the text they held in common?

    Perhaps this is a key observation. Do I say we embrace sub par translations? Surely not! But I think it's important that we focus our efforts, concerning those who do use other translations we may not endorse, on the issues we have with them. Even in bad translations the Gospel still shines, even if not in ALL it's splendor. There is our common ground. I say we use the power of the Gospel to unite us, not a particular translation. From there I think we can address important issues related to translation. From that place we can do it charitably.


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    MrMerlin777

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by MrMerlin777 on Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:45 am

    Good stuff Travis,

    Man! We need a thanks button here. Oh well, THANKS. (Howzat?)
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    larryjf

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by larryjf on Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:07 pm

    MrMerlin777 wrote:Good stuff Travis,

    Man! We need a thanks button here. Oh well, THANKS. (Howzat?)
    I was thinking the exact same thing!
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    GMcClain20

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by GMcClain20 on Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:06 pm

    Your welcome.

    Perhaps we can get a "Your Welcome" button also! Laughing


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    KennyJS

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by KennyJS on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:48 pm

    Has anyone heard of the KJV-ER? (King James Version / Easy Reading)

    It's basically the King James in modern language. For example... "Thou knowest" would be 'You know.' I read a few books from the KJV-ER, then it started to fall apart because it was one of those cheap mini-Bibles. I would like to get a larger version. Perhaps I shall order one online.
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    larryjf

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by larryjf on Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:08 pm

    KennyJS wrote:Has anyone heard of the KJV-ER? (King James Version / Easy Reading)

    It's basically the King James in modern language. For example... "Thou knowest" would be 'You know.' I read a few books from the KJV-ER, then it started to fall apart because it was one of those cheap mini-Bibles. I would like to get a larger version. Perhaps I shall order one online.
    If you like the KJV and want to make it easier to read i would suggest the Defined KJV. That keeps the original text but defines the archaic words in footnotes and such.

    For instance, i think the "thou"/"you" distinction in the KJV actually adds clarity to the text, and would hate to read a KJV without such a distinction.

    Pilgrim

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by Pilgrim on Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:13 am

    larryjf wrote:
    KennyJS wrote:Has anyone heard of the KJV-ER? (King James Version / Easy Reading)

    It's basically the King James in modern language. For example... "Thou knowest" would be 'You know.' I read a few books from the KJV-ER, then it started to fall apart because it was one of those cheap mini-Bibles. I would like to get a larger version. Perhaps I shall order one online.
    If you like the KJV and want to make it easier to read i would suggest the Defined KJV. That keeps the original text but defines the archaic words in footnotes and such.

    For instance, i think the "thou"/"you" distinction in the KJV actually adds clarity to the text, and would hate to read a KJV without such a distinction.

    That (the second person plural) to me is one of the main reasons for reading the KJV today. Otherwise, IMO better to just go with the NKJV or another translation like Jay P. Green's MKJV if one wants a modern translation that is more or less based on the TR.

    fordaven

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    Re: Bible Versions and the Example of Jesus

    Post by fordaven on Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:10 pm

    Actually the Puritans used the Geneva Bible. King James didnt like this version because of the Calvinistic notes within (Lex rex vs rex lex) and had a new version produced -The King James.

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