websites of interest

www.wretchedradio.com (free streaming of the radio show available)
www.wayofthemaster.com (if you have never heard the sermon "Hell's Best Kept Secret"..go do it now! then go to their store and get some great tracts.)

http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com (then go down the list of their blogroll)

http://teampyro.blogspot.com/ is a great site with a great blogroll as well.
http://expositorythoughts.wordpress.com/ is another very good site.

For those investigating eschatology, http://futureisraelministries.org/ is a very interesting site that has some material by Horatius Bonar, J.C. Ryle and Charles H. Spurgeon that may cause you to reassess what historic premillenialism really is. The genesis of the site is Barry Horner's book, "Future Israel."

Pilgrim wrote:For those investigating eschatology, http://futureisraelministries.org/ is a very interesting site that has some material by Horatius Bonar, J.C. Ryle and Charles H. Spurgeon that may cause you to reassess what historic premillenialism really is. The genesis of the site is Barry Horner's book, "Future Israel."

Interesting site. It looks like Horner is playing up the similarities of a few historic premillennialists to his dispensationalism. I think if he were to look for similarities to, say, George Ladd, he would be found wanting.

Let's keep adding to this thread as the days go by. There is a great deal out there on the Web that is helpful for our spiritual benefit.

elnwood wrote:

Pilgrim wrote:For those investigating eschatology, http://futureisraelministries.org/ is a very interesting site that has some material by Horatius Bonar, J.C. Ryle and Charles H. Spurgeon that may cause you to reassess what historic premillenialism really is. The genesis of the site is Barry Horner's book, "Future Israel."

Interesting site. It looks like Horner is playing up the similarities of a few historic premillennialists to his dispensationalism. I think if he were to look for similarities to, say, George Ladd, he would be found wanting.

His point is that Ladd compared to men like Spurgeon, Bonar and Ryle is found wanting when it comes to historic premillenialism. All of the above saw a literal, physical restoration of Israel to the land, and all were nondispensational. IMO, it's one of the strangest ironies that a position (Ladd's) that overall is of more recent vintage than Classic Dispensationalism (Scofield/Chafer) is now considered to be "historic premillenialism." Ladd actually departed from historic premil to a significant degree. As Dennis McFadden (who was a student of Ladd's at Fuller) pointed on out the PB not long ago, Ladd operated from amil presuppositions in many cases, but remained premil due to his reading of Rev. 20.

Today holding to a physical restoration is considered to be a dispensational distinctive whereas it wasn't in the past.

Pilgrim wrote:

elnwood wrote:

Pilgrim wrote:For those investigating eschatology, http://futureisraelministries.org/ is a very interesting site that has some material by Horatius Bonar, J.C. Ryle and Charles H. Spurgeon that may cause you to reassess what historic premillenialism really is. The genesis of the site is Barry Horner's book, "Future Israel."

Interesting site. It looks like Horner is playing up the similarities of a few historic premillennialists to his dispensationalism. I think if he were to look for similarities to, say, George Ladd, he would be found wanting.

His point is that Ladd compared to men like Spurgeon, Bonar and Ryle is found wanting when it comes to historic premillenialism. All of the above saw a literal, physical restoration of Israel to the land, and all were nondispensational. IMO, it's one of the strangest ironies that a position (Ladd's) that overall is of more recent vintage than Classic Dispensationalism (Scofield/Chafer) is now considered to be "historic premillenialism." Ladd actually departed from historic premil to a significant degree. As Dennis McFadden (who was a student of Ladd's at Fuller) pointed on out the PB not long ago, Ladd operated from amil presuppositions in many cases, but remained premil due to his reading of Rev. 20.

Today holding to a physical restoration is considered to be a dispensational distinctive whereas it wasn't in the past.

Ah, but the real question is, did the Chiliasts in the pre-Augustinian era hold to a restoration of Israel? After all, that is what the "historic" in historic premillennialism refers to. As far as I know, they did not.

My tentative position seems to be an historic premillennial position somewhat in between Ladd and Spurgeon, et. al. A future spiritual restoration of Israel (through incorporation into the church) seems plausible from Romans 9-11, but I have reservations about a physical restoration to the land.

elnwood wrote:

Pilgrim wrote:

elnwood wrote:

Pilgrim wrote:For those investigating eschatology, http://futureisraelministries.org/ is a very interesting site that has some material by Horatius Bonar, J.C. Ryle and Charles H. Spurgeon that may cause you to reassess what historic premillenialism really is. The genesis of the site is Barry Horner's book, "Future Israel."

Interesting site. It looks like Horner is playing up the similarities of a few historic premillennialists to his dispensationalism. I think if he were to look for similarities to, say, George Ladd, he would be found wanting.

His point is that Ladd compared to men like Spurgeon, Bonar and Ryle is found wanting when it comes to historic premillenialism. All of the above saw a literal, physical restoration of Israel to the land, and all were nondispensational. IMO, it's one of the strangest ironies that a position (Ladd's) that overall is of more recent vintage than Classic Dispensationalism (Scofield/Chafer) is now considered to be "historic premillenialism." Ladd actually departed from historic premil to a significant degree. As Dennis McFadden (who was a student of Ladd's at Fuller) pointed on out the PB not long ago, Ladd operated from amil presuppositions in many cases, but remained premil due to his reading of Rev. 20.

Today holding to a physical restoration is considered to be a dispensational distinctive whereas it wasn't in the past.

Ah, but the real question is, did the Chiliasts in the pre-Augustinian era hold to a restoration of Israel? After all, that is what the "historic" in historic premillennialism refers to. As far as I know, they did not.

My tentative position seems to be an historic premillennial position somewhat in between Ladd and Spurgeon, et. al. A future spiritual restoration of Israel (through incorporation into the church) seems plausible from Romans 9-11, but I have reservations about a physical restoration to the land.

Some of them did believe it, although at the same time they tended to hold to what Horner would call "replacement theology." Of course, I'm sure you'd agree the key is what the Bible teaches, not what the ECF's taught.

I love both of these, and frequent them both often.

http://www.gty.org/

http://www.preceptaustin.org/